Sony Z5U vs. V1U

aanders3@san.rr.com · #1 11-13-2009, 01:32 PM

Hello,

I currently have a Sony FX1 and am ready to upgrade to a 24P camera. I'm really looking for that film look and most of my productions are controlled lighting set ups so low lighting shooting isn't a huge concern. I am looking at the Z5U and the V1U. I know the V1U is an older camera but right now with a rebate you can get it for less than $3000. The Z5U is still in the 4K range. My question is, strictly based on pleasing film-like image with all things being well lit and equal, is there a big difference in these cameras? In other words, is there a $1000 difference in the image quality. I know the V1U has smaller sensors, but that seems to mainly affect low light capabilities. Thanks for your opinions.

Jerry_R · #2 11-13-2009, 01:45 PM

I have seen footage from the Z5 and it looks nice. The big difference between the two cameras comes down to two things: the Z5 has an optional card based recorder ($800) and it has much better image control. But IMHO the HPX 170 is a better camera. Realize the camera will not give you film like quality and that 24 Frames is a myth just like shallow DoF. Its the progressive that makes a big difference and how well you can use your tools in story telling.

aanders3@san.rr.com · #3 11-13-2009, 01:53 PM

Thanks for the reply. I understand there is much more that goes into that film look but there is a nice image leap from the FX1 which shoots only interlaced and looks very sharp and nice, bit also video-ey (is that a word?). The newer cameras just seem to have a much more pleasing look, softer maybe. I can do a lot in post but I'm looking for the best camera footage raw.

Jerry_R · #4 11-13-2009, 02:29 PM

Most of that is the better image controls, gamma etc and folks learning to use them and not turning up the sharpen control all the way. The Z5 from what I have seen is a very nice camera; but if I were looking at it with the card recorder for a couple hundred more I would get the HPX170. It uses the much better AVCHD CODEC. And yes AVCHD can be hard to edit and needs a hefty computer or transcoding.

ConsumerDV · #5 11-13-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry_R

Most of that is the better image controls, gamma etc and folks learning to use them and not turning up the sharpen control all the way. The Z5 from what I have seen is a very nice camera; but if I were looking at it with the card recorder for a couple hundred more I would get the HPX170. It uses the much better AVCHD CODEC. And yes AVCHD can be hard to edit and needs a hefty computer or transcoding.

The HPX170 shoots DVCPROHD and its lower end flavors onto P2 cards only. For AVCHD one wants the HMC150.

The V1 is pretty bad in low light, and its codec is not that good, easily breaks into macroblocks on busy scenes. I suppose that Sony updated its HDV codec in 3rd gen cameras.

Anders, the Canon XH-A1 is much better in light than the V1, it shoot progressive, no jello, and its HDV codec is better. You can find a used one in the States for $2-2.5K

Jerry_R · #6 11-13-2009, 06:22 PM

170 does DVCPROHD (100Mb), DVCPRO 50 and DV25. DVCPROHD is a bit better than XDCAM and is I frame only 4:2:2. if you want jello buy it from the grocer.

Don't know why I didn't mention the A1 at $3400 its cheaper and without A/B it would be hard to tell from the Z5.

DVdiver · #7 11-14-2009, 12:55 AM

Hey AAnders3

I have both the FX1 and V1U.

Looking at just the Z5U vs V1U, I would go with the Z5U.

If you look on ebay the v1u price is half of what I paid (over $4,000).
I think the camera is great, but for resale you could be hurt.
( btw FX1's price on ebay is close to, or more than the v1u.)
V1U also had a back-flange lens problem. (mine repaired free under warranty, but bs that they put it out there and told no one...Mine was registered day one but I had to find out about the problem not from sony but in online forms)

I do like the V1U and have seen it covering shows like "no reservations" but I know there are more benefits to the newer Z5U model.
Plus the ergonomics on the Z5U is closer to the FX1.
I love the FX1 monitor location as the Z5U has.
So big help if your keeping the FX1.

Good luck

osv · #8 11-15-2009, 03:16 PM

most people who want to shoot film-style also want serious dof control... you can't do that with most video cameras.

so if you want dof, look at the dslrs that record video... they are far from perfect, but for the little money that you want to spend, they are in a class by themselves... just be prepared to work through the issues that come with an immature product like that.

Jerry_R · #9 11-15-2009, 03:44 PM

Well we all know that the cameras can't give much DoF control today. Film or Video. Physics determines that. But with the 35mm adapters you can do better. Frankly Large or shallow DoF is a technique and in a few cases an esthetic and has nothing to do with the story per se.

osv · #10 11-16-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry_R

Well we all know that the cameras can't give much DoF control today. Film or Video. Physics determines that. But with the 35mm adapters you can do better. Frankly Large or shallow DoF is a technique and in a few cases an esthetic and has nothing to do with the story per se.

i think that your fixation on always making the last post in a thread is interfering with your logical thought processes, lol

a 35mm adaptor does NOT work better than a 35mm lense mounted on a dslr.

and no, the shallow dof that comes from shooting video with a dslr is very difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate with a standard video camera.

Jerry_R · #11 11-17-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

a 35mm adaptor does NOT work better than a 35mm lense mounted on a dslr.

I see that y'r spelling is degrading as is your attention span and ability to read. I never sid that nor implied it. The 35mm cameras have very limited DoF control in that there is no way to get a great Dof or even a moderate one—at least without a lot of effort and some luck. So I would like to know: is it better to have a shallow DoF or a deep DoF neither of which can be altered much and why?

Quote:

and no, the shallow dof that comes from shooting video with a dslr is very difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate with a standard video camera.

I never said it was—I certainly don't consider a 35mm adapter part of a standard camera and while there are cameras out there with 35mm size sensors or even larger they are hardly "standard"

But I would really like a considered answer to my question from anyone.

osv · #12 11-19-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry_R

The 35mm cameras have very limited DoF control in that there is no way to get a great Dof or even a moderate one—at least without a lot of effort and some luck.

there it is again, lol

jerry, why don't you make the effort to learn how to operate a dslr, before crying about your inability to control the dof?

you see, dslrs have this thing called "aperture" on the camera, and it can be manually selected by the operator

and guess what, aperture = dof.

here, i'll even give you a good link where you can learn more about the subject: http://www.photoxels.com/tutorial_aperture.html

Jerry_R · #13 11-19-2009, 04:50 PM

I have used a DSLR for years. I have an old Nikon D70 I use weekly. Yes aperture control lets you change the DoF a little but check out the circle of confusion. That is mainly sensor size and focal length and that is how you calculate DoF. My D70 doesn't have anything like the deep DoF that my F1 does.

But why not answer my question?

osv · #14 11-22-2009, 12:39 PM

deep dof would indicate that everything is in focus, but the film crowd usually wants the ability to use shallow dof, which is why they are so ga-ga over shooting video on dslrs.

you need fast glass to achieve a really shallow dof, most people use a prime lens, not a zoom, an aperture of 1.4 should give you a dof of less than 12" or so on your camera... your lens probably won't go down to 1.4.

here are some dof examples:
http://www.photoaxe.com/examples-for...epth-of-field/

ken rockwell loves his d70:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d70.htm

Jerry_R · #15 11-22-2009, 01:08 PM

The lens I like best is a 50mm F1.2. Yes focus is fussy but its great for complex stuff like LV control panels, network wiring etc. as you can get just what you need to show. Its also very nice for table top and portraits. I usually restrict zooms to large areas and HDRI fiddling around. But the 35mm film lenses I have played with all have a pretty much fixed DoF as they are just not nearly as fast and the FL is often usually shorter.

BTW nice links.

Check out DoF formulas and Derivation. Looks complex but it is really pretty straight forward (yes I am a physicist and mathematician), but it isn't hard to understand just takes a little effort.